Jaime Hartman (00:07):
Welcome to the AIP Summit Podcast, your go-to resource for taking control of your autoimmune health, presented by AIP Certified Coaches. Hi, I'm Jaime Hartman.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:18):
And I'm Marie-Noelle Marquis. And we're here to equip you with the tools, knowledge and support you need to effectively use the autoimmune protocol.
Jaime Hartman (00:26):
And today we are going back to school to learn the ABCs of AIP.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:40):
Let's kick things off by defining a few terms. So first of all, what does AIP mean, Jaime?
Jaime Hartman (00:47):
Well, when we use the abbreviation AIP, we are talking about the autoimmune protocol. You might also hear it referred to as autoimmune paleo or the autoimmune paleo protocol. And this is because it originated with the paleo diet movement. It was initially popularized by bloggers in the paleo sphere, as it were, who were finding that it helped them better manage their autoimmune diseases.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (01:13):
And that's actually probably another term we should define. So what exactly is an autoimmune disease?
Jaime Hartman (01:20):
We can break this down. So the prefix auto means self, and so autoimmune means that the body's immune system, which is supposed to protect the body from germs, viruses, bacteria, other harmful substances, the outside world, that that system starts getting confused and it mistakes its own healthy tissues as something that it needs to attack. And then that attack causes inflammation, which then leads to impairment of normal function. And the part of the body that's affected, or the parts of the body that are affected depend on which autoimmune disease a person has.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (01:56):
And there are a lot of different autoimmune diseases. So we don't have time to go through all the list of them all, but maybe it would be helpful for our listeners to give them a few examples.
Jaime Hartman (02:06):
Sure, that's right. Depending on who you ask, there are at least 80 different diseases that are classified as autoimmune disease or I saw as many as 150. And actually I've seen some listed that are even longer. Probably. There are many that just haven't been confirmed as autoimmune in nature. So some of the common examples are lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, diabetes type one, type one diabetes, multiple sclerosis, the inflammatory bowel diseases, Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis are specific ones. And the autoimmune thyroid diseases that are pretty common, including Hashimoto's thyroiditis and Graves disease. So now let's define that other word. So we've talked about the A and the I as autoimmune, and then the P stands for protocol. Marie-Noelle, why is it important that our listeners understand that AIP is a protocol and not just a diet?
Marie-Noelle Marquis (02:57):
Yes. So a protocol is a system. So that is made up of multiple components. So when we're talking about the autoimmune protocol, it's really crucial to look at it as a complete system which uses both dietary and lifestyle factors to help mitigate symptoms of inflammation and autoimmunity. So the autoimmune protocol is a functional approach to addressing autoimmunity, which means it acknowledges that systems in the body depend on one another to remain in balance the same way the autoimmune protocol depends equally on diet and lifestyle to truly be effective. So I think we have very strong diet culture and people tend to shift their focus to the dietary portion, to the point that they sacrificed the lifestyle components. And those lifestyle components are things like sleep and movement, connection, reducing the stress load. So really I think understanding that the full spectrum of what the protocol is is really crucial to get that full benefit and balance.
Jaime Hartman (03:53):
Yeah, I agree. So now that we have these definitions out of the way, let's get into the specifics. As most people probably already know, the dietary component of AIP is based on the idea of elimination and reintroduction. Marie-Noelle, can you explain for our listeners what foods are traditionally avoided during the elimination phase?
Marie-Noelle Marquis (04:13):
Yeah, so obviously I think we all know the importance of eating whole foods for our health, so needing to avoid processed foods, alcohol, refined sugar should be no surprise, right? In addition, the original AIP diet, like you said, Jaime, is based on a paleo diet. So you'll want to avoid gluten grains, all types of dairy and legumes like a paleo diet. Now, what makes AIP different is that we're also going to temporarily eliminate foods that are potential inflammatory triggers for people with autoimmune disease. So not only grains, but also nuts and seeds. We'll look at avoiding eggs like both egg whites and egg yolk. We're also going to remove nightshades, so things like tomatoes, eggplants, and everything in the pepper family. So we not call this original elimination protocol Core AIP, so it's different from the Modified AIP elimination protocol. And Jaime, can you share a little bit about what is the Modified AIP and how it came about?
Jaime Hartman (05:14):
The Modified AIP protocol was developed in 2023. It was based on a decade of medical research. There are seven studies that have been published to date on the AIP intervention and clinical experience from the many AIP Certified Coaches and other practitioners who are using it in their practice, working with real people in real life situations. And what we came up with was a less restrictive list as a starting point that works for many people. And we now call this, as we've already said, Modified AIP. So let me describe that. If you're going to start with the Modified AIP elimination protocol, you would eliminate most grains, most forms of dairy, also nightshades and some common allergens, specifically soy nuts, peanuts, and eggs. Now, we've already talked about how AIP grew out of the paleo diet. Modified AIP really breaks from that tradition because it actually allows you to eat rice, which is a grain, and it allows you to eat ghee, which is, if you're not familiar with that term, a form of butter where it's been heated so that the milk solids can be removed.
(06:27):
And so there's no lactose, there's very little cace. It's usually well tolerated by most people. And it also allows most legumes, which is something that paleo does not allow. And the reason that there's this change is because we've learned that these foods are often well tolerated and that for a lot of people, the benefit that they can provide will outweigh any potential negative impact. Another key difference is that the Modified AIP allows seeds, whereas Core AIP, the original AIP was really particular about avoiding all these seeds, and it makes a distinction between two types of grains, cereal, grains, and pseudo grains. So there's a lot of information here, and I'm going to put a link to an article in the show notes that has all the details that goes over how this came about. Has some side-by-side comparisons, food lists that you can download, and we would encourage you to check that out.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (07:19):
Jaime, one thing, since we're talking definitions, how would you describe pseudo grains? What are those?
Jaime Hartman (07:27):
Yeah, so pseudo grains, this might be a term that's new to our listeners. A pseudo grain is actually something that looks like a grain, hence the term pseudo. And it's used in our diets a lot like how our grains are used. Let's be specific grains or cereal. Grains are the most common ones are wheat, rice, oats, and corn. Those are the most common ones, and they are all actually from grasses. Pseudo grains come from non grass plants. And the examples that a lot of people are familiar with in that are quinoa and amreth is one people might be familiar with in wild rice, and buckwheat actually is a pseudo grain as well. And although they get grouped together in our diets because they can perform similar roles like on the plate, they are a bit different botanically. And so for some people, they are actually digested and tolerated quite differently in the body.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (08:21):
Great. Thank you for defining that for us, Jaime. And I think it's just the Modified AIP. It's so interesting that as research come in more and experience come in, we start realizing that yeah, some of the foods that initially were eliminated actually have those benefits. And I think it is right there with this component of the protocol, which is the reintroduction part that is so important. And a lot of people have this misconception basically that you have to be on, whether it's core elimination or AIP elimination forever and when in fact it's really just supposed to be a starting point. So let's talk timelines. How long are those elimination phases and how long is that supposed to be and how does someone know when to begin reintroductions?
Jaime Hartman (09:14):
Yeah. Well, I'm going to give you a few numbers and then I'll caveat that with, of course everybody's unique. But one number that people who are listening can think about is 30 days. We generally will say a minimum of 30 days is what you need to plan to adhere to your chosen elimination protocol for, and that is because that gives your body enough time to see some benefit from it to make some adaptations. It could actually be based on what the science is showing us, perhaps even less when we're looking at just trying to figure out if you have any hidden food allergies. But 30 days works well as I think a container for our brain to wrap around. You can plan on just doing this for 30 days and then you're going to see how you're feeling and perhaps you're ready to do reintroductions at that point.
(09:59):
Now this is another common misconception is that people think you should wait until a hundred percent of your symptoms are gone before you do reintroductions. And in fact, we do not advocate waiting that long. Many people, it'll take quite a while for all of their symptoms to turn around, especially if you've been experiencing them for a really long time. Your body's not going to just reverse everything immediately. But we also know that you don't need to stay in the elimination phase exclusively and keep continuing to see that symptom improvement. So what you're looking for is measurable symptom improvement, just enough symptom improvement that you can feel like you're on the right track and that when you start to cautiously, deliberately test foods, you'll be able to tell right away if that's a good food for you to keep eating or a food you should continue to avoid.
(10:48):
Now, the other thing to know, another number I'll throw out is 90 days. If you start your elimination protocol, you do 30 days and you don't feel like you've got measurable symptom improvement yet, and you want to do another 30 days or even another 30 days after that, that's fine. But if you've gotten to 90 days of doing it and you still don't feel like you've got enough symptom improvement that you could be able to tell if reintroductions are going to work, I would really advocate at that point you need to get some troubleshooting support because at that point we know that whatever changes are going to happen in your body just based on what you're doing should be showing up. And so you may want to step back, get some support, there might be something else going on, but those again, are the rough numbers for most people. So I'll review that. Again, I threw a lot out there. 30 days is the minimum measurable symptom improvement is your decision criteria for when you're ready to try some reintroductions. And if you still don't feel like you're ready for reintroductions at 90 days, we want you to get some support. Now let's talk about who AIP is intended for. So generally speaking, who do you recommend use AIP?
Marie-Noelle Marquis (12:00):
Great question. Well, I recommend it for people who are highly motivated and looking for a root cause approach at reducing their autoimmune symptoms. I think the IP protocol has this component that's an opportunity to connect with your body. So that's why I feel like they're highly motivated in looking for a root cause approach. It's not a quick fix. It's a journey. So I think you have to have first that mindset to go into it. I think sometimes people are interested in doing it instead of using medication, and that could be a way, but it's also definitely it can be used in combination and it can be very successful that way. Also, I also recommend it for clients who may not have a diagnosis of an autoimmune disease, but they're experiencing very similar symptoms of chronic inflammation. So they might not have to go all the way core elimination, but starting that process I found can be very helpful.
(13:04):
So depending on the person will look at either doing a rapid transition elimination and dive right in or a more gradual elimination, but it's important to know that everybody reacts differently. I know we've been mentioning that it's bio individual, but it is so, so important for our listeners to grasp that everybody reacts differently and it's a point that we keep repeating, but I think it's so important for our listeners to understand everybody's different. Everybody will react differently, and there are some people who may want to think twice about starting an AIP elimination diet who may need maybe even extra support doing it.
Jaime Hartman (13:43):
Yeah. One thing that concerns me when I'm screening clients is that I want to make sure that I understand what their health history is up until that point. I am not a doctor, so I can't diagnose them, but it does help me to know when somebody really needs to make sure their doctor's okay with them making this big dietary change. A really obvious one for me personally because it ties into my personal health experience, is that when somebody comes to me and they have a history of inflammatory bowel disease, we mentioned IBDs earlier, Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis, if they've had any involvement in their bowel that had any history of bowel obstructions, if they've had surgery, if they've had strictures or any near obstructions, any problems there, I may want them to talk to their doctor, their gastroenterologist first. This actually came up in the very first medical study that was done on AIP.
(14:37):
It was actually done in a population of patients who had longstanding inflammatory bowel disease, and they had great success with it overall, the outcomes of the study were really impressive. But there was one study participant had to withdraw early because this person dramatically changed their diet, started eating lots and lots more vegetables, lots and lots more fiber, and they had unfortunately a bowel obstruction. They turned out to be okay. It was dealt with and resolved, but it was something that probably could have been avoided if they had screened for that. And that person had been guided into the elimination phase by maybe eating more pureed foods, more well-cooked foods, perhaps there should have been some adaptations done to the way that they actually implemented it. So that's a big thing that I look for. I'm not saying that those people shouldn't do AIP, but they really should be checking with their doctor.
(15:34):
And if you have honestly any other medical condition, you really should check with your doctor. Your doctor may not know what AIP is at this point. We're working on that, but at this point, they may not have learned about it in medical school. And so you may need to explain to them what it means to be doing AIP. And the important thing that you should share with them is that you're going to be eating a lot more vegetables. You're going to be a very healthy diet. You're going to really be adding things into your diet that you might not currently be eating and ask the doctor, is there anything that you should be monitoring me for? Is there anything I should be aware of, anything we should be looking for to make sure that that's okay? I look at that when I'm screening my clients to just see who might need some more support. How about you?
Marie-Noelle Marquis (16:20):
One question I often get is, can we do AIP as a vegetarian or a vegan? And I think that's a very delicate question. First of all, I personally was a vegan when I was first introduced to AIP, and it was really difficult. It was a very difficult choice that I had to make. I had my very clear reason why I was a vegan. So I would say basically, if someone chooses to make that transition, it's definitely an emotional and a psychological journey, and I completely would understand that someone, not everyone might feel comfortable adding animal protein to their diet. So as far as, well, can we do AIP as a vegan or vegetarian? Unfortunately, what the data is showing us is that it's really not safe for someone to remove the animal protein from an AIP diet and still meet all their nutrient requirements, right?
(17:11):
You're removing eggs and dairy and nuts and possibly seeds and legumes, so you're left with vegetables and fruits. So it's just simply not enough to really give your body what it needs, especially with autoimmunity needing more protein to rebuild our tissues. It's just not a safe way. The goal here is to heal. So it's not a safe way to do an AIP diet. I've had people in AbbVie even asked that myself when I first started was, what if we just supplement for extra protein and take amino acids? And there's little hacks like that, but honestly, supplements are just that, right? They're there to supplement your diet, not to replace. And ultimately, with the purpose of healing, particularly, I think it's really crucial to get our nutrients from food. So I just simply wouldn't recommend doing AIP strictly as a vegan or vegetarian pescatarian.
(18:08):
However, it's a completely different story. We've seen a lot of very successful people doing a pescatarian AIPI think as long as you're monitoring your protein intake, making sure you have enough variety in your fish seafood, I think it can be very, very successful. Also, one more thought on veganism. Depending how long someone has been vegetarian or vegan, if you choose to transition to an AIP diet, you might need additional support, maybe even professional support from an AIP certified nutrition based practitioner, for example, to make sure you're safely making that transition, that shift to now adding animal protein to your diet. And then one last thing I would say on that, this is something that was basically helped me transition. One thing that was really important for me was the sourcing and the treatment of the animals. So take a moment to see if this is something you're considering making that transition. Just honor your why, honestly, and maybe sourcing could be a good thing to focus on and supporting small local ranchers that you can meet and you can really check that their practices are really humane. That could be a way to help support you making that transition.
Jaime Hartman (19:34):
Yeah, I get asked about vegetarians and vegans and pescatarians a lot too. Sometimes people are coming from a vegetarian or vegan background like you are looking for healing and will decide to add animal foods because it's what their body needs. And I give them a lot of adulation for that. I think that's a hard thing to do, can be very emotional. You can definitely do AIP as a pescatarian. I've seen people have a lot of success with that. So if somebody is listening to this, and that might be something they'd be willing to step into, I'd say go for it. You can definitely have some success there. I would also add that if you're doing Modified AIP, it could be safe for you to do it because you can have legumes. Now remember, soy is still excluded because it's an allergen, so it's still going to be a big challenge.
(20:23):
But what I would caution somebody to be careful of there is that it just hasn't been researched yet. So we don't actually know if that's an effective approach. So I would be careful about trying it. And if you were interested in doing that, if trying that, I would definitely want you to be working with somebody who can make sure all of your nutritional needs are met. So that would be somebody who is ideally an AIP Certified Coach, so they fully understand protocol, but who is also specifically a nutritionist or a dietician, somebody who's qualified to do meal plans, to do nutrient analysis, to really help make sure you're getting all of your nutrient needs met. And then there are some other people who also need some extra support and should probably be taking into consideration a lot of other factors if you have high energy needs, because dealing with a very young child or the social emotional needs of a very young child who might not be thriving on a restricted diet because of those social isolation factors, we have to take all that into consideration.
(21:22):
Also, if you're pregnant or you're nursing, you can definitely do AIP. I've had several clients do that successfully. I've had clients get pregnant while they're doing AIP and yay. They'd been trying for a while and was a wonderful success, but they really need to be obviously aware of their energy needs and some specific micronutrients. That's another category of people who may want to get some extra support. And then I've worked with elderly people who are transitioning into an assisted living situation or have a caregiver in their home, somebody who's helping to help create their meals for them. And that can be a tricky thing when you have food restrictions and you're relying on some outside resource to prepare your meals. It is still possible and doable, but we always want to weigh whether it's the right thing. Is it really that beneficial for a person who's needing to rely on those institutionalized meals to then maybe not have meals that meet all of their needs if you're layering on unnecessary restrictions. So I'm not going to say point blank that those people would not do AIP, but we might look at modifying it or modifying it even further. So again, these are all the types of people who might want to work with somebody who can help them do that. And then Marie Noel, is there anything else that you look at when you're screening your clients that concerns you?
Marie-Noelle Marquis (22:43):
Yeah, I think I would be, I'm careful. I am careful recommending AIP as a diet to someone with a history of eating disorders. So I think the elimination of food can be incredibly triggering for someone who's lived with an eating disorder. Again, it goes back to AIP being a protocol. So the dietary is just a portion of it. So I think maybe instead of putting all the focus on eliminating food, I approach it with, why don't we prioritize lifestyle habits? A lot of time, I bring that first. So we look at lifestyle habits, and it's things that actually helps you cultivate, and you're setting that foundation of taking care of yourself and making sure that the sleep, the movement, the connection, I think is a really key component here. And then when it comes to diet, maybe looking more at the positive focus of adding food that's healing instead of the avoidance part. So I think that's, again, it's very triggering. I think it's something to be careful with. And then there is a point that someone really, really wants to explore the elimination diet part. I think it's really important to make sure to have the appropriate professional support in place, whether it's a therapist, a doctor, make sure that as well as your environment, friends and family, just as really strong support system every step of the way.
Jaime Hartman (24:19):
Okay, so we've gone over what AIP is, and we've talked about who it's right for and who might need to get some extra support or think twice about it. But if you've heard all of that and you're thinking, yeah, I'm going to do it, let's now share some of our tips for getting started Marino. While you were talking before about a checklist. Can you share a little bit with our audience now about that checklist that could be helpful for them to decide how to get started?
Marie-Noelle Marquis (24:45):
Yeah, so I think it's really key because you hear gradual transition versus rapid elimination. And I know for me, I'm like, it has to be everything or nothing. And then I know other people like that too, and that doesn't mean it's a healthy way to go about it. So we actually have a really simple resource. It's just a checklist that you just honestly go through the few questions to just really assess what is the best way for you to do it that would lead to the most success. So the goal isn't like, oh, you can't do gradual. You do gradual because you can't go all the way. That's just all of those, that little voice in our head, that's just pointless, right? The goal is to get better. So it's just really simple. And we'll link, we'll put the link in the podcast so you can do it yourself, but I find it super valuable, a really valuable tool.
Jaime Hartman (25:42):
And I'll add to that, just so you guys all know all the medical studies that have been done on AIP, or at least the first, I think five or six of them that were done, I know for sure were all done in a model where the participants gradually transitioned. And so that is really the standard practice that we recommend for the vast majority of people. And I also recommend, another tip I will add to that is that while you're doing that gradual transition, focus on your lifestyle at the same time, maybe each week there's one thing that you remove from your diet and one thing that you're focusing on in your lifestyle and one thing that you're adding to your diet and just building that piece by piece. If that sounds a little bit too nebulous, you can get some structured support. I have a program that's my signature program called Ready Set, AIP, I call it a structured coaching program.
(26:28):
You start any time you work through week by week, you get your directions and it guides you with both lifestyle and dietary steps. And it takes you through all of the phases of AIP that we've been talking about, that gradual transition, the elimination, and then learning about reintroductions. I'm going to put a link to that also in the show notes. And I'll also tell you that there's a coupon code you can use as a podcast listener. It's just the word PODCAST in all caps, and that'll give you a discount if you're interested. And then I'll just add to that, you might need even more personalized support. We've already talked about that. And whether you heard something in our conversation about people who need to be careful or you just know for yourself personalized support would be good, get an AIP Certified Coach who can work with you.
(27:15):
We both are AIP Certified Coaches, and we have a bunch of colleagues who also are, and we'll put a link in the show notes also to the directory of them. If you're doing it on your own, if you're going to DIY it, make sure that any reference materials or resources that you use are accurate. And the best way to do that is to see if they were created by an AIP Certified Coach, because those are the people that have had the training. And speaking of resources created by AIP Certified Coaches, Marie-Noelle, you created a company called Urban AIP. Can you tell us how your company can help support people's AIP journeys?
Marie-Noelle Marquis (27:50):
Yes. So I'm a firm believer in taking the stress of cooking off our plate, especially when we first get started with a protocol so that we can focus on healing and addressing those lifestyle branches we talked about. So Urban AIP is a 100% AIP compliant meal and snack company. It's all about convenience and ensuring highest quality. We use organic ingredients consistently. All of our animal protein is pasture raised, grass fed, and finished, and never supplemented with corn or soy. All the meals are chef prepared. They're designed by nutritionists who are also AIP Certified Coaches to make sure they meet optimal nutrient density and also diversity. We also make sure the food is toxin-free, which means, and never comes into contact with plastic or chemicals, whether it be in our kitchen or in the packaging. So our meal trays are plant-based, non GMO and compostable. We ship nationwide. So if you feel this is a service that can help support your healing journey, check out urban aip.com. You can select the number of meals and snacks you'd like the frequency, you'd like to receive those, and we'll shove them right to your door.
Jaime Hartman (28:57):
And I have to add that these meals are just absolutely delicious. I love having a few of them stashed in the freezer so that on days like, oh, maybe we have a long podcast recording session. I know that I've got something ready for me to just pull out of the freezer, pop in the oven while I finish up my work, and it'll be ready for dinner. So if our listeners want to try Urban AIP Meals, you have a special offer for them, right?
Marie-Noelle Marquis (29:21):
Yes, absolutely. So you can use code PODCAST at checkout to get an extra discount and get started.
Jaime Hartman (29:28):
Yes, and I'll be straight to put a link in the show notes for that as well. Finally, we just want to reiterate the importance of understanding that AIP is a protocol. It has multiple branches. There are multiple ways that can be approached in order to achieve the best results. And we're going to be here through this podcast to guide you through the process to bring you resources so that while we know that you can be doing AIP on your own, you don't have to do it alone.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (29:57):
We'll be back with another episode in two weeks. So make sure you subscribe to this podcast if you haven't already to stay informed.
Jaime Hartman (30:04):
Thank you for listening. We look forward to helping you use the power of the autoimmune protocol to elevate your wellness journey to new heights. The AIP Summit podcast is a Gutsy By Nature production. Content presented is for informational purposes only, and is not intended to be a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.
